Before I address that, let me state at the outset-he is being stupid. As Patrix points out, each of us are responsible for the consequences of what we say-Saket’s comment would be construed as offensive at the least and racist at worst. If he was in the US, and if he opined that he found Black women less attractive-he would be in trouble. So we should definitely be wary of making such broad generalizations which frankly serve no real purpose.
Now, let’s come to the charge of Saket being racist and chauvinistic. Here’s what he said,
But in any case, I’m thankful they are North Indian: If the site had pictures of a shit load of them Madrasi chicks (with equally unique sounding names) instead of the Punjabi ones, the contest would have been an absolute non-starter. [link]
Since Saket’s post is about India’s hottest chick contest, I guess what he means is that ‘Madrasi women’ are less attractive (or hot) than North Indian women. Saket further clarifies (in the comment section) that his classification is according to attributes like height and ‘better complexion’. However distasteful I might find it, Saket is entitled to his view on what he thinks is the appropriate definition of beauty.
First, is there something called beauty or physical attractiveness? I would argue yes and it is entirely subjective. That would be true for both sexes-how many women would date a man who is short and weigh 300 pounds? Not many, I bet, and to pretend otherwise is foolish. Men swoon over beautiful women and women fall for good looking men-that’s how it has been and that’t how it will always be. To pretend that everything is equally beautiful is, well, just taking the politically correct way-nice to hear but largely meaningless. As long as we recognise that such preferences take nothing away from the person being judged but are merely indicators of our tastes, we are doing okay.
Second, most people are offended by Saket equating fairness with beauty. I would be the first one to admit that I use skin complexion to judge beauty-I don’t like fair women. I have always thought that dark-skinned women are more beautiful and since I don’t consider myself a racist-I am not sure I can call Saket that for thinking the opposite. After all, we are both guilty(if you must) of using the same criterion for judging beauty.But then who isn’t? Why are tall men considered more attractive? What about fat women? Is there any difference? Then why is one perfectly acceptable and other is not. Of course, there are fairness creams even for men now-so there! And as far regional biases go, I have this thing for Bong women….
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Finally, Saket was talking about a contest which aims to judge the hotness quotient in a woman, and the contest is voluntary in nature. Perhaps, then the real anger should be directed against beauty contests. I personally think they are entirely a waste of time but people like them-don’t they? Look at it this way-those who are finding Saket’s comments offensive, are they not accepting that there is something called beauty? I mean, if Saket had claimed that women need to be hot to succeed in life-a lot of people would have simply said: how dare you demand that women be hot? No?
Admittedly, it’s not a perfect world and it’s certainly unfair to claim that men and women are treated as equals by the society. Women certainly face a much greater burden of social prejudices. I really don’t have a solution to offer but trying to impose a universal standard of beauty won’t take you too far. I admire the intentions behind it, but all prejudices can never be removed because they stem from the most basic of human right-choice.
One concern, a very thin line divides preferences from bigotry. And we should be a)smart enough to define that line b) careful enough not to ever cross it. In other words, I don’t think it’s wrong if someone claims that he finds a person of particular color less attractive, however, if based on that skin color, he/she is denied a job then that is racism. To fight racism, we should be clear enough about it’s definition and not use it everytime someone from a different race/region passes a remark which we find unpalatable. This isn’t as easy as it sounds-Blacks use the N word for themselves, but if I was to say it-I would probably spend the next couple of months in a hospital.
This one would perhaps have been better if she didn’t try to look as if someone was gonna rape her in the next thirty seconds. Or maybe not.
Frankly, I found this comment far more distasteful than the rest of the post. Joking about rapes, IMO, is far more distasteful than about skin complexion.
Before I end-a frank admission. Personally, I can’t recall the last time I found an advertisement offensive or a comment for that matter. Usually, I am just amused. If someone was to crack a joke at my expense, even if it is racist, I am confident that I can give it back in equal measure. Yes, I admit I was brought up in a very liberal environment and I have lived a largely sheltered life, mostly among academicians. Perhaps, my lack of personal experiences makes me less willing to accept claims of racism. But I will say this- it also depends on how you take it. Just because your White boss scolds you, it doesn’t always means he is racist.
Right?
Filed under: Culture/Society, Media/Blog watch






First, is there something called beauty or physical attractiveness? I would argue yes and it is entirely subjective.
I believe it is more objective than subjective. I have given this matter some thought. I believe there are five aspects to attractiveness.
1) Natural or geometrical: This is highly objective, as you can tell. Among all body shapes, the ectomesomorph is supposed to be the most attractive. Symmetry is favored, balance of top and bottom and middle is favored too. Height is favored because it lends favorable ratios. Just like 1:sqrt(2) is supposed to be the most aesthetic shape. Shape and symmetry is also important for facial aspects. We like large eyes. Apart from shapes, important aspects include clarity and cleanliness. This is nothing new, body shapes have been under discussion for centuries.
2) Biological: In sanskrit literature, we favor pinonnata payodhara. We also favor Gajagamini. The former means pointed raised breasts. The latter refers to the slow rhythmic movement due to large derrier. Recent surveys reveal men prefer the hourglass shape. Women put on more make-up during ovulation.
3) Cultural: Culture shapes our preference too. It causes reinforcement. Vulturo should know, there was a Marathi dude who played women in the old days in plays (that was the custom). Apparently he was so good that people wanted prospective brides to look like him. Vulturo professed his attraction towards Kate Moss. You can easily see that this runs counter to his North Indian side as well as Marathi side. This is totally shaped by cultural impact. These days many men prefer to date or marry women who are closer to the models, i.e. sickly skinny. But their sexual preference would be for more meatier specimens for sure. Of course sexuality is shaped by cultural factors as well. An interesting point – in old days showing breast shape was not fashionable in India. Therefore old bollywood heroines would wear a tight corset to flatten out their chests. This is evident in the Lila Chitnis movies of yesteryear. I wonder if this somehow affected Vulturo’s preference.
4) Familiarity: I grew up in a tribal belt and have a strange preference for muscular and lean tribal women. I think familiarity does add to attractiveness.
5) Behavioral: You all know about that short stocky dude who was a chick magnet? Or perhaps that petite little girl who would light up the mood? I could categorize this within culture but I think this is different. Attractiveness is all about perceptions and is highly sensitive to the behavior of the person involved. Achievement comes under this category. Sania Mirza is considered attractive although she is a typical garden variety Indian girl. Because of her age she looks cute sometimes.
Gaurav: Don’t bother. Your wheat fields need you.
Gaurav: And who’s ‘Subho’?
@one more head-on collision with Potato-head
a quick look at his profile (laddish)
….claims that he tries to sweep and garner tidbits of information from various corners of the world and overload the ever-growing repository of his time-warped brain, which may burst at the seams anytime….and those unbelievably delectable radical ideas reflecting his hatred towards many a kind of clichés….study his claims and read into what he said…..the same old fuckwit wine in a revived packaging!
Ye, ye, the journey of a progressive minded male starts from the milestone titled- “Stereotyped”. my dear gentle souls, I urge, don’t you ever brand a lopsided rendition of “ubiquitous stereotypes” as reflective statement of social repercussions – Closet racism or Toned down racism.
Are not we bombarded with stories of stereotypes in the popular cultural avenues till the lunacy in us unleashed – pristine white dhoti-clad Madrasi/south Indian men (women) releasing broken shards of Hindi, the ever-vibrant Punjabi men (women) hedonistically dancing in the big fat weddings, the genteel Bengali babu lost in some world, with an empty glance at his beautiful woman in shakha pola at Durga Pooja, Goan fishermen (women) along with their catch from sea waters swaying their hips to a folk song…..hookah-smoking, paan-chewing nawabs of Lucknow in the gullies sharing a piece of humor…ah, this is my India! our India!
The moment has arrived – the potato-head, a staunch admirer of the legendary sir Pelham Grenville Wodehouse should do something radical now *lets start with a tiny step – pull the middle portion of the dhoti n wrap it around your legs, with the upper end of both sides tightened around the waist, humbly bow & smile at pleasant looking yet gorgeous south Indian women dressed up like dolls in nine yard sarees….ye, you are allowed to admire slender their deep tresses flow down to their waists, and slender folds of fragrant skin around waists! We term them “elegance notes of femininity”
any path-breaking gifting ideas to Potato-head on St. Valentine’s Day ….let me know
Barbarindian,
That was informative. True. I recall that earlier post from Confused, regarding the perfect butts. J Lo vs Kylie Minogue.
Barb,
I think criteria for beauty are influenced by success in evolution.
For example (I think) the classic hourglass figure indicates ability to bear children and hence its desirability.
One thing that baffles mr is aesthetic preference for symmetry, one (evolutionary) reason may be that they are predictable and hence comfortable to animal.
@Barb & G (decide who I am negating?whose points I am trying to counter? or raising my hands to the PARKERISED wine slapping your shoulders?)
1) Natural or geometrical parameter for preference:
Tall or petite, a frame could be considered attarctive (am not sure how far this can be stretched to a man) if it is well balanced by a slim waist. waist gained prominence these days, as it is an indicator healthy lifestyle.well, of course, male eyes invariably land on breasts…a wonderful ad campaign, Men talk to breasts.
how she handles him with her “dare to rip open” kinda talk & attitude defines “scorchingly attractive”…then men wail,gosh she is hot man!
this sqrt(2) funda, dnot know reminds me of “LADIES TAILORS syndrome”
Body shapes,pre-marriage, are measurable.Post-marriage, distorted body shapes are avoidable.then emerges “Roving eye” enterprises.
2) Biological:yes, men prefer the hourglass shape. size zero/skinny models are shown the door.free meals scheme for size 0 is being followed in Madrid.
Three cheers for South Indian gals & their well endowed bodies…Rekha, Sri Devi, Hema, our latest Shil, Tabu (someone likes her a lot),Shobana…gals u rule Indian mens’ fantasy worlds..tch wood.
3) Cultural: Culture shapes & reinforces our preference..fair enough.but I say this is a bit parochial.when most youngsters are sailing across the seas n weave dreams at the western blue colored fence, do they really stay firm or get colored by a motley C factor?
4) Familiarity sure a big factor but reeks of “Predictability” which is a curse most married couple live with or struggle with.
5) Behavioral: truly reflects the change, the only constant factor.remember, our mental models define our world, but paradigm shifts are a two-way street.In the old world,managers make prodcts.In the new world, managers make sense of things.all grwth is a leap in the dark, a spontaneous, unpremeditated act withut benefit of experience…time to change the horses!
Happy Valentine’s Day folks @ R
left this comment on vulturo’s site last night.
“i notice you have taken your appalling response to lakshmi anantnarayan’s comment off. for those coming in late, in response to this comment ( http://www.vulturo.com/2007/02/bunkdcom-disappoints/#comment-11808), saket announced that lakshmi anantnarayan wins a prize — a pair of his semen soaked undies. he has deleted that response now. damage control underway, eh, saket?”
i am now curious to see whether you will let this comment thru.
shekhar
update: he didn’t. damage control underway, all right.
This whole debate about north and south will never die, because its a debate between indians and mix of middle east and indians(punjabi). All punjabis are sons and daughters of invaders, their mothers had been fucked by these invaders. That is why most punjabi girls still fall for muslim boys. So we indians, are wasting our time over some product of middleast DNA.
Guys and gals.. he said shitload of madrasi chicks.. Doesn’t anyone find that offensive.. stating an opinion and stating it in an offesensive manner is 2 diff things.. But saket already knows that he wants attention.
also if south indian women are ugly then so are marathi,bihari,gujrati(highly overated),bengali..
[...] size, height or any other characteristic of human body. Neither do I think that a preference for skin color automatically signifies racism. (As FiTW believes who calls me politically correct–a first in my short blogging career.) I [...]