Warning: If you are the religious type, don’t read any further. If you do, don’t blame me if you are offended.
Recently, much debate has raged over whether or not Islam is a peaceful religion. I had my say on the other blog which well to put it mildly has not pleased a lot of folks. So you might ask? Whats new?
heh. But can we make organized religion compatible with modern secular and liberal values? Can it hope to co-exist peacefully with the values which we cherish? If yes. How?
Suppose you are a Hindu. And you like Ramayana, but you find the concept of Sita being asked to pass through the fire to prove her chastity stupid. So what should you do?
Take Ram to the corner and tell him: ”Look dude, I think you are a pretty nice guy. I mean, I like the way you shoot your teer-kaman, it kinda sexy if you know what I mean. But I find this whole idea of anyone being subjected to a fire test stupid, so excuse me, if I don’t follow that.”
Simple, no? Maybe you find the whole Ramayana idiotic(like I do) then check out Mahabharta, if you don’t like that read Vedas. If nothing appeals to you become an atheist!
All I am saying is that do not surrender your judgment.
Chalo, lets suppose you are a Muslim. And you are confused about whether you should beat up your wife or not. Some Mullahs say you should, others say, no, Islam does not sanction that. So what should you do?
No! Don’t ask Aallah! Look, Aallah is responsible for about 1.1 billion people. Think for yourself, can wife beating be justified whatever the provocation might be? Think hard, and one should be able to figure out the answer. Ok, this one’s a no brainer but sadly not for everyone.
But what happens if Allah appears in your dream in the night and you ask him if wife beating is justified?
If Aallah says no, bow down and proclaim him as the true God. But what if he says yes?
Aallah:Of course, infact that’s one of the requirements for paradise.
You: well, sorry dude. Ye nahi chalega.
Aallah:But…
You: And you know what? You run the whole frigging world but I have a bad tempered boss to answer to. So please be on your way so I can go to sleep. Go scoot!
That’s it! You send Allah on the way. I mean yes, I see Hindus have an advantage here. They have like 330 million Gods and Goddesses!
Infact, this is something I have often wondered about. Suppose we accept that Hinduism was established like, say 5000 years ago? What was the population then, maybe like 30 million? So even if we accept that every individual was a Hindu, he had about 10 Gods for himself. Talk about personalized services! So you don’t like what Shiva told you(that is if you could clear all the bureaucracy), no problem, go to another one. There are plenty around!
My personal contribution to Hindu Theology has been the belief that Hindu Gods formed the first political establishment. So you had the High Command, and then Indra served as the Prime-Minister of an assorted gang of ministers who took care of everything from death to rains. Wows, individual responsibility!
Infact, to take this a little further, they also provided the first insights on how the future politicians will behave. Indra was mostly drunk or busy with Apsaras, while the other cabinet minister fought turf wars. They even had a Amar singh like character who moved all over the place spreading mischief .
Makes sense, no?
Chalo, lets get back to our story. So you send Aallah packing and during his wanderings, he meets Ram, siting in the corner sulking.
Aallah: No one respect us anymore. People are actually trying to think for themselves.
Ram: I know, it sucks!
Aallah: yeah, we will see them in hell.
Ram: yup, sallon ko dekh lenge!
Infact, here is another of my little personal theories. How the threats organized religion issues mirror the threats of Mumbai underworld. ‘I mean ‘Kal tak 10 khoka nahi Diyato uda denge” is it not similar to:”if you don’t follow what I say, you will rot in hell.” I mean, think. And this whole business of Jesus died for you! Here is the deal guys, if you promise me that you will be worshipping me 2000 years after I am dead, nail me to the Cross Now!
Anyway, lets introduce Jesus in our little story. Shall we?
So Ram and Aallah are wandering around, when they spy a man hanging on the Cross.
Ram: Jesus! You still hanging up there?
Jesus: Yup, the bastards said that they will take me down after 3 days. Its been like what. 2000 years? Please take me down.
Aallah: Sorry, I am too busy. Too many buggers blowing themselves up and I better find some more virgins.
Ram: Me busy too. Sita is off again, these woman I tell you! Guess, another fire test is in order. Sigh! such wastage of fine sandalwood.
Jesus; Please, take me down now and I promise I wont ever climb a fugging Cross again. For Christsake help me!
Aallah(the merciful one): Well, ok.
Ram:Ah! well, ok.
Jesus: Thank God!
Ram and Aallah in unison: You are welcome
Now, they look at each other.
Ram: What do you think you are doing?
Aallah: Well, he just thanked me!
Ram: He said Thank God which means he thanked me!
Allah: Oh, you prince without an empire, you think you are a fugging God!
Ram: So who else is? You?
Aallah: All right, lets settle this right here, who is the true God!
Ram: chal! Aaaja maidan mein!
So, Ram and Allah are on their way looking for their swords and teer-kaman while Jesus cries in the background
”You morons, first take me down! I gotta pee!”
(Now, think, is it not what the whole my religion is better than yours BS is all about?
Chalo, enough of this nonsense. So, what is the moral of the story?
That if you are the religious types, then by all means, learn from what your religion preaches. But that can never be the complete education. We learn from our parents, the society, the books we read, the people we admire. Religion can reinforce the positive things to some extent but can never by itself make us complete. Thus, never sacrifice your individuality and your values at the altar what someone claims to be the truth.
To sum it up: Take the best and fug the rest!
Isme complicated kya hai?
Of course, I don’t understand why people are dying for Gods as theirs is not even the true God. Which of course is mine!
All hail FSM!
Filed under: Culture/Society, Religion
Cool.
To sum it up: Take the best and fug the rest!
this is the moral of that story? i just don’t get it!
tgfi,
There were multiple threads running through. Some of which was just plain wicked fun!
Bu the jist of my argument is that one should take out of religion what one thinks is right and do not rely on literal translation. If you think, thats what all the stupid stories point to.
If i were Sita, I would said to my hubby darling Ram,”EFFO baby”
now coming back to ur article,wonder why u developed wandering feet these days?I could not follow up with your wanderings,perhaps,I am too feverish..need a second reading! I stopped at the virgin bit…will back soon!
J
50 short ones
*I would say (a typo up there)
I dnot believe in disrespecting religions and their respective foundations.they certainly give a strong base for one to start with,a sense of direction n comfort of being with a community that thinks like him…we all crave a cocoon.
However, these days,there’s a lot more demand on the individual to contemporise certain beliefs n behavioral nuances to suit his/her lifestyle. I say,it’s SPIRITUALISM most of us r adopting to,not following a religion blindly
Jyo
But why should one believe in modern “secular” and liberal values ?
The entire problem is that for someone who is seriously religious, the very thought of questioning it is blasphemous. That’s what faith is about…
But i also don’t understand how, seeing, reading and knowing what they do, people can live on faith alone, without questioning and doubting.
@ Jyo
even hurt
I think he’s rambling a little because he’s angry
by the comments on the other blog, of course
Confused, the point is not how much you believe in your religion. I may or may not accept many things about my religion, but it will still not stop this war of religions.
What the hell can you do when this jehad has been forced upon you ??
I am saying this again to you – even if I turn atheist tomorrow, there is no guarantee that I wont be killed in the name of religion. Even if I turn Muslim, the opposing sect will bomb the mosque I go to.
It does not matter to the islamic jehadis how much a non-Muslim believes in their respective religions, or does not believe in any at all, if you notice. It is reason enough for them to kill.
But why should one believe in modern “secular” and liberal values ?
==========
Good point, Gaurav.
I wonder if discriminating against me because I am not secular and liberal violates my rights, etc etc.
Confused, to add to my above comment. Ok, whats wrong if I believe in my faith, and just dont bother to love or hate others. Why are we being kinda forced to respect “minority” religions, without getting any in return. Its the jehadis who are against freedom of faith, not the rest of the world; forget what the secular media of the world says about muslims being victimized etc.
This, when we all know that all religions have so many glaring discrepancies.
R & n
so dear boy is upset n hurt…let me effort in making him smile
“religion can reinforce the positive things to some extent but can never by itself make us complete..”
If am expected to learn & practice upon things I grew up with* as a true habitual Hindu girl
@Polygamy : My Gods are polygamous, with two or more wives..one has a whole army of girl-friends & one soulmate
@Polyandry : God brothers share a wife…Goddesses, not wives in the physical sense but pure universal energies….-perhaps hi-Octane lubricants###
@Festivals of Elopements & Silent auctions,
@Strip tease of different kind
@Pre-marital affairs, Staying in marriage but mingle with heavenly bodies to create “Gods in embryo”
et ctec..The 84,000 earthly desires are 84,000 cauldrons in hell…I’d rather stay as normal a being ready to get killed by religious fanatics – they are everywhere
Jyo
here I binge again.
heh !
Jyo
that really shud make him happy again. heh
Jyo,
hehe. I think they are all pretty awe inspiring, if you know what I mean!
But, this polygamy bit beats me, how did these games evry manage like 5 wifes? Plus they had all those Apsaras too tackle too!
Gaurav, Shadows,
I am not asking you believe in them.
Ibelieve the state should be run by secular liberal values as in a multicultural society, that is the best approach.
However, how you chose to live as an individual is something which I cannot dictate. If you adopt a certain religion, by extension it means you cannot respect other religions equally. That is fair. Infact, you might not respect a certain religion at all, and that is fair too. All what I think is required is that you respect their right to exist. Thats all!
And Shadows, yes discriminating against you because you are not secular/liberal is certainly a violation of your right. Of course, I am assuming that you are not questioning anyone else’s right to exist.
Fair enough?
n,
Thanks re. Sigh! Though less pissed off and more intrigued.
Pondit,
heh
hey boy,
am an average woman walking down the street.dnot know how they used to manage 5 women n 5 men in their lives.guess,they were under the tutelage of Lord Krishna. I cant even manage a relationship*minus sex for some 3 months. I used to dream of being Radha to him, when I was a child…when I grew up,I learnt about this soulmate bit,n said to self damn!
Abnormal gaiety nurtured by Hindu Gods n Goddesses,meant to be desired by normal beings.A hopeless dream nurtured…
Be Rama as the earthling,be a good boy or a girl.After your death,you can be a Krishna or an assistant to Indra in the skies…n most of us work towards it..
Jyo
*took a print-out of ur column n kept it on my softboard*office.it’s runaway a success.a true rib-tickler!
confused,
nice.
chk if your library has song of the dodo by david quammen. and riffle thru the part where all the discoveries of new species, as europe began exploring the world, threw serious questions on noah’s ark. as new species were found, people began wondering just how large (or how crowded) the ark was anyway.
for the rest, read this book called the end of faith? by sam harris.
cheers
shekhar
[...] This is a quasi-post based on an old idea dug out of the obscurity of my depressingly large Drafts folder and is inspired by Rohit’s damn funny post on religion. Which is appropriate, since the genesis of this the old blog-post was a chat discussion with him about religion. As it happens when we talk of such matters, the Flying Spaghetti Monster was invoked (all hail FSM!) and during the chat it came out that according to the Church of FSM, heaven was supposed to consist of strip clubs and beer volcanoes ! Which is all very good – I mean its no 72 virgins – but then there aren’t any pre-conditions. [...]
If you adopt a certain religion, by extension it means you cannot respect other religions equally.
Not necessarily.
Moreover, what kind of compatibility are you referring to, between organized religion and secular values? One can have organized religion in a society without the constitution even speaking of it.
BTW, rAma did not ask sIta to go to the fire; sIta volunteered.
“You morons, first take me down! I gotta pee!” — LOL, that was too much – he’s out there since last 2k years, wonder how he managed till now ? lame excuse to get him off
but the crux of it all is indeed, learn the goodey things, and be a better (hu)man – fanatism only fuels the arms industry
(and hospitals too, thanks to bombs, killings, anthrax etc etc )
Confused:
A minor point – Hinduism really says there is only God, and nothing else, but there can be different faces of It (not Him, nor Her), so its incorrect to say Hinduism has 330 million Gods (agreed, you probably used that line as a joke).
My contention is that religion is nothing but the collected wisdom of its people, and represents nothing more than the current mindset. Which also means that a religion is not supposed to be static, but must change with time as our concepts of good and bad are refined. And atleast in Hinduism, we have seen this – someone has popped in at various times, questioned the existing mindset, sought to introduce reforms, and for the most part, has done his bit.
Religion itself is pointless if it does not lead to spirituality. You might disagree about the entire notion of spirituality itself; as an atheist, you might claim there is no need for religion, that God does not exist, but nevertheless, you might promote values and good conduct (whatever they might be). I might be on the other side of the fence, a believer, a follower of Hinduism, but at the same time I too am promoting the same values that you are, except that I use spirituality as my base.
Debating the question of whether or not God exists is finally pointless, a person’s experience of God is only going to be subjective (many wise men have said this too). In the end, I would rather not have any religion than to have a pseudo-religion and go on killing others in its name.
(Apologies for the longish comment, but I felt I had to say this)